Ep 38 | MARCUS SPIELMAN Transcript

Ep 38 | Marcus Spielman 

Transcript

Before we begin this podcast, please be advised that the following episode contains language that some listeners may find offensive and inappropriate. The opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the podcast producers. Listen, the discretion is advised.

No violence, no drug or alcohol abuse in your parents. Went to church, everything was perfect. Oh, Beth turned me into a, a monster. He was like beating his head off the steering wheel. When I got there, she looked at me with this look of love, frustration, fear, compassion. I've never seen a look like it. She believed that he would have killed her if I hadn't have stepped in.

I spent my whole time in here really wanting to be mad about not getting off free. You are now listening to the podcast Voices of a Killer. I'm bringing you the stories from the of the people that have. taken the life of another human, and their current situation thereafter in prison. You will see that although these are the folks that we have been programmed to hate, they all have something in common.

They are all humans like us that admit that they made a mistake. Will you forgive them, or will you condemn them? They are currently serving time for their murders, and they give us an inside glimpse of what took place when they killed, and their feelings on the matter now. Here are the voices of those who have killed.

On this episode of Voices of a Killer, we're talking to Kansas born Marcus Spielman. At just 20 years old, Marcus life took a sharp turn when he fatally shot his longtime friend, Ronnie Ingle. Born in a stable middle class background, Marcus now finds himself behind the bars of a prison cell. Marcus story is a stark warning about the power of addiction to wreck a promising young life.

During our conversation with him, we traced the many misguided choices he made that took him from a privileged upbringing to a life of crime. Who was Marcus Spillman before that fateful February night? What circumstances led Marcus to raise his gun at Ronnie, and how will a criminal conviction reshape his life?

Join us as Marcus walks us through a life of drugs, crime, and the consequences all on this episode of Voices of a Killer. So Marcus, you from Missouri? I am from Missouri, but I was born in Kansas. Okay. So you spent most of your life in the state of Missouri? Yep. How was your childhood? Well, I would say that I had a pretty normal middle class upbringing.

Religious parents, brother, sister, special needs little brother. Would it be easy to say that you didn't witness any kind of alcohol or drug abuse from your parents or violence or anything? No, none. Not at all? None. What did your parents do for a living? My father was an auto body technician. And my mother was a retail manager for multiple butt sized women's stores.

Yeah, how many siblings do you have? I have three. Do you have a relationship with your parents and your siblings? Yeah, I have a great relationship with them. You stay in contact with all of them? Yeah. Whenever you got out of your parents house, did you go to further education, did you, what kind of work did you do, what'd you do?

Oh, I pretty much went straight to addiction. Oh, you got into drugs? Yeah. At what age did you get into drugs? At 15 years old. So you came from a pretty normal background and somehow you were able to kind of sneak around and get into drugs. What was the, what was the first hard drug you did at what age?

Cotton at the age of 15. What year would that have been? Hmm. I'm 25 now. I'm, I'm gonna say 2015. 2015. So you got into O*ycontin in 2015. You were still just a, a young adult, what'd you say, 15 or 16 years old or, or later than that? Yeah. Yeah, I would say 2014, 2015, I would have been 15 years old. How did you get into that?

Some friends had it? I mean, I mean, you kind of had a normal childhood and everything. So I was raised very religious, like I said, I was raised as what I was with, and one of my friends, he was kind of an outcast, and I was kind of an outcast, and he did drugs. Your friend go to church with you? Yep. And you were Jehovah's Witness, you said?

Mm hmm. So your friend that, uh, he's the one that kinda had it first? The, the drugs? Yep. Did y'all already do other drugs before that, together? Nah, I, yeah, weed. I smoked some weed with him. Yeah. Had he got into it for the first time whenever he was with you, or when you met him, he was already deep into it?

Nah, he was already into it. How did he introduce that to you? Did he say, you know, did he bring it to church? How'd that happen? Mm hmm. We were kind of each other's excuse to rove about freely without our parents knowledge. I kind of found out that he was smoking weed and I wanted to smoke weed too because I'd been hearing about it from classmates.

Yeah, do you feel like your childhood was pretty oppressed by your parents because of the Jehovah's Witness and things like that? I wouldn't say a fresh foot shelter. Marcus came from a religious middle class background. His parents were Jehovah's Witness, and by all accounts, they gave Marcus and his three siblings a solid start in life with no drugs and no alcohol abuse.

Marcus had a happy childhood with two loving parents who met all of their son's needs, but it was also a sheltered household. And as Marcus became a teenager, he started to look beyond the confines of his small, safe religious world. At church, he felt like an outcast who didn't belong, so as any typical teenager would, he sought freedom.

It was around this time that he met a church friend who became his gateway to a world of drugs. The friend introduced Marcus to weed, but as his curiosity grew, he progressed to harder and harder drugs, while keeping his activities hidden from his parents. Many people fall into drug use because of a troubled childhood.

Often when parents are drug users, a pattern of addiction can get passed on to their kids. But Marcus story is different. Taking drugs was a deliberate break from his family, an act of rebellion against the religious values held by his parents. And the church. So you basically, this guy that you went to church with, that was a, an avenue for you to.

You know, get weed from, smoke with, stuff like that, y'all became friends that way? Yeah. And then I guess he came out with the O*ycontin? No, no, no, no. He was the one that introduced me to marijuana for the first time. I introduced myself to O*ycontin. Well, how did you do that? So, it's a long story, but long story short, I was on a cruise ship with my family, and my mother had brought the family pill supply, and I wanted to smoke some weed.

There wasn't any weed, so I was like, remembered O*ycontin could get me high, so I tried O*ycontin by myself on the cruise ship. And who'd you get that from? I pretty much stole it from my mom. Gotcha. What'd she have it for? She had a bad back. And that was your first time to try, was on the cruise ship?

Yeah. And you just took one? No, I took one, and then 30 minutes later, it didn't do anything. 30 minutes later, I took another one, and then another one. So I wound up taking three that night. And then, was it time release? Yeah. And then it finally hit you and you felt really, really good? I felt really, really sick.

I thought I was gonna die. Really? You got real sick and it felt like you were nauseous? Yeah. Did you end up after that night thinking you'd never do that again? No, because I went to sleep and I woke up and it was the best feeling I'd ever felt in my entire life. So by that time, the time release had hit a spot when you woke up to where it actually was doing what it was intended to do?

Yeah. Yeah. And after that, it was pretty much set that you were going to seek out opiates? Actually, opiates were not necessarily my downfall. I decided after that that I would be a drug connoisseur. I wanted to try all different types of drugs. Okay, so that kind of set you on a path to go about experimenting.

What was the second drug to experiment with? I'm gonna say Acid or Xanax, one of the two. Yeah, that was the Acid. Oh, I used to love it. Did your parents ever find out you taking pills from them or doing Acid by 16, 17, 18? Oh, they found out. Yeah, what did they do when they found out about this? Oh, so, they sat me down on the couch, my mom, they found my extra phone, and they went through it, and they cried, almost put my mom in the mental hospital, it was pretty rough.

They grounded me. What did they find in the phone? They found all of my communications with all of my friends that were involved in the drug world. Yeah, just lots of conversations about getting high and all that stuff. Yeah, lots of criminal activity. They found content about guns and drugs and money and women.

What was their approach on that to solve this issue when they, what was their fix? Well, they took my phone, they took the car keys, my dad got rid of my dog, they tried to drown him. Yeah, I had a dog. I had a German Shepherd, and it was like my best friend. Poor dog. Okay, and I'm gonna assume that you're probably already deep into doing drugs, that didn't really change much?

No. Not at all. What was the next drugs after acids and X, you know the opiates, what did you go to next? Poly, MDMA. So you, okay, so you went to ecstasy and then what? And then m*th. And then m*th. Did you shoot up the m*th? Yeah. I did m*th any way that I could do m*th, but I am an I. B. Do you feel like m*th was the one out of all those that kind of got you on a path of destruction?

That's one that grabbed a hold of me. Yep. What's some of the stuff that you were doing on m*th that was just really out there that you recall? Oh, that turned me into a monster. I allowed it to involve me in things, robbery, extortion, things that I wouldn't necessarily want to talk about over an institutional phone, murder, obviously.

Did you ever break into people's houses and, and at gunpoint? I have. Yeah. Do you feel like it made you really just a completely different person than And you actually are. Absolutely. One of Marcus's first drug experiences was stealing O*ycontin while on a cruise trip with his family. After that first pivotal experience, the floodgates were opened.

Marcus began experimenting with drugs of increasing severity, from acids Xanax and Ecstasy to more dangerous drugs like m*th. Marcus was hooked, and with each use, he spiraled deeper into addiction. He couldn't keep his drug use a secret forever though. Once, his parents found out his secret after they found messages on his phone.

Distraught, they tried to punish him by confiscating his phone and car and getting rid of his German shepherd. But their efforts were ineffective and Marcus was already deeply addicted. m*th, in particular, turns Marcus into a completely different person. What makes m*th so dangerous is its strong potency.

It can rewire how the brain works, turning a calm person aggressive and violent, and even inducing paranoia and psychosis. And the effects of m*th are so intense that users often resort to theft to fuel their addiction. That's what happened to Marcus. He quickly became involved in criminal activity. He is reluctant to admit exactly what he did.

He does mention robbery, blackmail, and home invasion. Hard drugs had thrown him into a destructive criminal lifestyle and threatened to derail his life. His name's Ronnie Engel. What's your relationship with him? I've known him since the sixth grade. He was, uh, a friend of mine. So this guy you grew up as kids with him, is this the same guy that went to your church?

No, no. But you had known him since sixth grade and he's a classmate, a buddy. What was your relationship through school with this guy? Enemies? Friends? Uh, friends, I would say. And we were friends. Pictures together and going out and like a homie? Part, yeah, we, we partied road round together. Was he also into drugs?

Yeah, he was. Yeah, but would you say he was equally into drugs as you were? Yeah. What did he do? Shoot a m*th like you or what? No, he was an all around user, kind of like myself. m*th, her***. P*P, things of that nature. Yeah. You and Ronnie were basically friends for a very, very long time. Were there any points in time that y'all got really mad at each other or had an argument or disagreement where you weren't friends?

You know, when I first met him in the sixth grade, we got in a fist fight. Okay. But after that, after that, we became friends. Yeah. That's actually pretty typical. You know, you're just children trying to figure it all out. But as you grew into an adult, you know, you're 18, 19, what was your relationship with Ronnie then?

It was off and on. It wasn't like we were best friends. It was more like we were, we were friends, but not like everyday friends, if that makes sense. Do you think there was some animosity underneath the surface with either one of you? I don't know. I don't believe that I had any animosity towards him. What about him?

I don't think he had anything against me. Take me back to the day that your crime occurred. Not the actual crime, we're just talking about the day. You woke up, well you're on a bender, you stayed up the night before, did you wake up and do this or that? What happened? Okay, that day I did wake up, I woke up off of a bender, I got high.

I was riding around. I think I may or may not have robbed somebody. I can't remember how that day went, but I remember that I was. And just to stop for a minute, you say you may or may not have robbed somebody. Was this kind of typical when you needed to get, you know, 40, 50 bucks or whatever it was, you just robbed somebody?

Yeah. So just for a moment, just to break free for a minute and think about this, you know, you're a guy that came up in a middle class. Family that your, your parents, no violence, no drug or alcohol abuse in your parents, went to church, everything was perfect. You know, you, it's not like you didn't have family to help you with anything you probably wanted.

You're actually, the drugs got you where you're actually robbing people. That's pretty powerful. Think about it. You know what I mean? It's, it just shows you right there how powerful you're, you know what I mean? How powerful that m*thamphetamine is. And you're sitting in prison right now for murder. Would it be easy to say that if it wasn't for m*th you would not be in prison and somebody else would not be dead?

I take full accountability. I don't blame the drugs, actually. Sure. Yeah, and I'm not trying to put it off on just drugs, but I'm trying to say that if you weren't on drugs, would you have done that? Now, that day, you know, you're out and about riding around, what happened after that? Okay, I was, I was hanging out with this girl, and my, my homeboy, and I was just hanging out, probably getting high, smoking some weed, and it was a pretty average day in that lifestyle that I was living.

Who was, who was with you, Sid? My, my homegirl, Chase, and my buddy, Motown. And y'all were all just hanging out? Yeah. And what happened after that? I decided that I wanted to, I wanted to leave, uh, and I was going to go across town to hang out with some different people. Were these two people relying on you for a ride, or they had their own wheels to get out?

No, they had their own wheels. I just left them at the house. So they were okay with you parting ways? Yeah. So you went on and left them, and where'd you go? Well, I was getting on the highway. I was going to go to Raytown, which is a part of Kansas City. Mm hmm. Probably about 30 minutes away from where I was from at the time.

As a young adult, Marcus was living a life that was in stark contrast to his privileged upbringing. He'd been raised in a stable, non violent household that was rooted in religious values. Now, he was getting high at every opportunity, partying and stealing. m*th is powerful and it strikes me that even somebody with a strong foundation in life can get drawn into a life of drugs and crime, to the point that they end up killing somebody.

The unfortunate victim was Ronnie Ingle, an old school friend of Marcus's. They partied together a couple times and For the most part, we're on friendly terms, like Marcus Ronnie was a young 20 year old entangled in a drug habit. They operated in the same circles in Kansas City and occasionally crossed paths.

No signs of animosity existed between them, no hint of what would happen on the night of February 16th. That Thursday was like any typical day for Marcus. In the morning, he woke up after a big bender and got high at home. Then, needing cash, he drove around town, picking out a target to rob. For Marcus, this was an uneventful day, and as it rolled on, everything seemed normal.

Maddie, which would be Ronnie's girlfriend. What'd she say? She said something that I kind of forgot to leave out, was that they had called me earlier in the day, Maddie and Ronnie, and asked to borrow some money. Okay. And I told them at that time that, um, I'd already loaned them some money and that they could, they could find some drugs or something for me to buy and I'd give them a little bit extra.

And then later on the day, they call back again? Yeah. What was that call about this time? Same thing? Yeah, they, they said, hey, meet me, she told me to meet them at her grandmother's house. They had some acid. Some acid, okay. Marcus, at this point in time, the victim in your case, Ronnie, and his girlfriend, Maddie, are calling you a second time, asking about meeting you up at Maddie's grandmother's house to, for some acid.

Yeah. You agree upon that, I guess, and then you head that way? Yeah. Whenever you get there, what's the house look like? Is grandma out there, you know, with flowers? Is she there at all? What's going on? Okay, so when I get there, Maddie and Ronnie are in the driveway and they're pulled in normal and I'm back in the driveway.

There's no one else around and it's dark out. Nighttime. What time is it? Oh, like midnight or 8, 8, 8 PM or? I'm going to say anywhere from 7 to 10 PM. It's not really an odd evening hours to be out, but it's pretty quiet when you pull up the, you said they are there or they're not there yet. Yeah, they're there.

They're in the driveway. Are they sitting in the vehicle? Yeah. Do you actually get out and approach them or what do you do? No, so I rolled down my window. Like I mentioned, I was backed into the driveway. Okay. You yelled at them or something? No, our cars were really armed. I could have reached out and shook Ronnie's hand.

Okay. We were driving. Okay, so y'all are driving to driver right there? What was their demeanor like whenever you pulled up? Were they happy to see you or what? I would say almost distraught. Distraught? Why were they distraught? Well, Manny got into my car and I guess they'd had a bad night. They'd been shot, done some bad drugs.

Not shot, but shot at. Shot out like a drug deal or something? Bad neighborhood? Yeah, something. Yeah, so they were all the remnants of being ripped off in a bad night? Yeah, and she, she was pretty distraught because she said that he had been, they had got a hold of some bad drugs and he had laid hands on her.

They, their back windshield was broken out because I guess someone had shot at him. Yeah, so he got aggressive with her? Yeah, yeah. She was trying to kind of tell you that in a hurry. Was he kind of listening in whenever she jumped in the car or did you close up your window or he couldn't hear that? Yeah, I don't think he could hear it because she was like whispering it.

What was your reaction whenever she said that he was being aggressive and all that? So my reaction was that of one that kind of had a callous to this situation because It has been an ongoing situation and she continued to go back to him. So I wasn't really as upset as I might have been a couple times before that.

So what happened after that little discussion? Well, if I backtrack a little bit, I would, I actually wanted to talk to them because I had been at a house with some pretty serious people that told me that they had ripped them off and my homegirl that I was with Previously, that they had kind of taken me over there to sign her car over to rip these people off for a large quantity of drugs.

Okay, so did you approach them about that? Yeah, I did. Was Maddie in the car with you and Ronnie was in his car when you were talking about this, or were they already? Yeah. What was their reaction whenever you told them that, you know, that they'd screwed over somebody that was pretty serious? She was feigning ignorance and he got belligerent.

He started screaming at her, telling her to get out of my car. Because you said that they ripped somebody off and they were concerned about that? Yeah. What did she do whenever he started freaking out on her? She locked the door. She did? Yeah. Did you roll up the window and did Ronnie get out? At this time, Ronnie backed his car up and blocked it from the driveway.

Oh, sh**. He gets out of his car with a hatchet. Do you roll up your window? No. What do you do? I grab my gun. As soon as you saw that hatchet, you grabbed your gun? Mm hmm. What kind of gun was it? It was a Bruger 22, like, competition style pistol. Had you ever shot it before? Yeah. Were you a felon at the time?

Yeah. So you were a felon with a firearm. Whenever you pulled that gun out, what did Maddie do? She just kept screaming at Ronnie to calm down. Was Ronnie saying stuff towards you, you know, F you and all this stuff because of that? He was telling me to get his bitch out of his car. Why do you think that Ronnie got upset over you just giving information about, you know, passing information on?

Did you say something smart to him or what? I told him that, that, that people were looking to harm him and her and he just wigged out. Were you a smartass about it? I mean, or why wouldn't he just take the information? Because, you know, if you would have told me that and I'd done something like that, I'd have been like, No, that's what they're saying.

Really? Wow. Tell me more. You know, instead of freaking out on you, because you're just the messenger. So why did he freak out on you? I don't get it. Yeah, that's something that I, I struggle with myself. I personally believe that it had nothing to do with the content. I have two separate beliefs. One is that he was already kind of freaking out and high on too many substances.

Because he was like beating his head off the steering wheel when I got there. He was beating his head on the steering wheel when you got there? Yeah. Okay, so this is a pretty intense ordeal. Right. Unexpectedly, Marcus had found himself in a confrontation with Ronnie Ingle. Earlier that night, he'd received a call from Maddy, Ronnie's girlfriend, offering him some acid in exchange for payment.

When Marcus pulled up at Maddy's grandmother's house on Poe Street, it was dark and quiet early in the night. Immediately, the atmosphere was tense. Maddy and Ronnie were seated in a parked car in the driveway. Clearly, they'd had a rough night. Their car had been shot at and The back window was smashed.

In a state of distress, Maddie slipped into Marcus passenger and explained that Ronnie had also turned aggressive on her that night. But that night was about to get a whole lot worse. Marcus also had a serious message to deliver to the couple. Maddie and Ronnie had ripped some people off in a big drug purchase, and they were in trouble.

Although Marcus was only the messenger, the news triggered something in Ronnie. He went ballistic and started screaming at Maddie to get out of Marcus car. When Maddie locked the door, Ronnie blocked the driveway with his car so Marcus couldn't leave. And then pulled out a hatchet. What was running through Ronnie's mind, we'll never know, Marcus drew on his gun, a Ruger 22 competition style pistol, ready to shoot.

And whenever he gets out with that hatchet, does he put on a show in front of your car? Does he approach the driver's side? Tell me how that looks. So he, he actually approached her side, and that's, that's whenever I got out of the car. Whenever you got out of the car, did you have the gun in your hand?

Yeah. Where was he whenever, the first place that he would have noticed you holding the gun? Or you, did you tell him, like, I'll, I'm gonna shoot you? What was the discussion like, just that instance of getting out and all that, you know, happening? Well, I had pointed the gun at him the moment he got out of the car with the hatchet through Through the door, through the windshield, I mean?

Yeah. And that didn't faze him? No. So whenever you got out, did you, did you get out and like circle the car or did you just stand, you know, across the car from him? Did you shut your door? What did that look like? No, I got out and I left the driver's side door open, pointed my gun at him and by this time he was by the driver's side headlight.

He came back around your side? What was the look on his face? Did it look like a guy that you thought was pretty serious and, and, and he could have done something to harm you? Did it look like a guy that was trying to show off or what was that facial expression like? He looked like he had rabies. Were you scared of him at that point?

No. You weren't scared of him? No, I mean, in truth, to say that I wasn't fearful. Uh, I think he might have to be a lunatic not to be fearful, but I don't think that I was scared because I was as willing to shoot him. So here's the, let's do this. This guy's running after you. He's already made it to the front of the driver's headlight.

Where are you at at this point? I'm right outside of the door, standing like I just got out of the car. And Matty's still in the car, in the passenger seat? Yeah. And do you raise the gun up like eye level or do you do it, do you pull it up by your hip or what? No, eye level. And did you say anything while he was approaching you at an eye level?

Yeah, I told him that if he didn't drop the hatchet I was gonna kill him. Did he say anything to you whenever you said that? Uh, not that I recall, but he raised the hatchet like he was gonna swing it. And how far was he whenever you pulled the trigger on the first time? Five feet. Five feet? And where do you, where do you strike him?

Where did I hit him? Yeah, where'd you strike him? In the solar plex, like dead center of the chest and in the arm. You fired twice? Three shots were fired. Was he in a walking motion towards you or was he standing still with the hatchet raised above his head? He was moving towards me. Did he fall on his face?

Yep. What did Maddie do whenever those shots were fired? She told me to get back in the car, let's go. She wanted y'all to leave? Mm hmm. And let me guess, you left. Absolutely. That's another reason why you're in prison. Mm hmm. Yeah. You might have had a fighting chance staying, but yeah, leaving really, man.

Whenever he fell, was he still moving or grunting or doing anything? He said her name. While he was laying on his face, he said her name? Yeah. Did you say anything to him? No. Was his car still in the way? This is something that I struggle with and I've struggled with for the past six years. His car started rolling down the hill at that very moment.

What? Oh, okay. So you struggle with understanding why that happened the way it did? Yeah. I mean, ten more seconds and I'd have just had a broken windshield or something. Yeah, that's crazy. So, basically, had the car rolled off, you could have pulled forward and left him with a hatchet. Yeah. And let him throw it at your car.

You think you would have left if that car would have moved out of the way in time? Yeah. So, after y'all hop back in the car and that, his vehicle's out of the way, y'all leave. Did you look at him just before you left? Was he still trying to move, or what was he like when you just left? I didn't see him. In a tense standoff, Marcus got out of his driver's seat and raised his gun to eye level.

Five feet away from Ronnie, Marcus warned him to drop the hatchet or get shot, but Marcus vividly describes Ronnie's eyes as wild, almost rabid, and he raised the hatchet as if he was about to strike. Three shots fired, hitting Ronnie in the arm and in the chest. Marcus old school friend fell, face first to the ground, where Mady's name.

Suddenly, Ronnie's car started rolling down the driveway. It's a bizarre tale that Marcus still can't quite explain, but it was also a stroke of luck as it unblocked the driveway. In the gap that opened, Marcus sped off with Maddie, leaving Ronnie lying on the dark driveway of Maddie's grandmother's house.

As they drove off, Marcus wasn't yet sure that Ronnie was dead. However, what had been a split second decision in a moment of chaos would become a life changing event. So right now you're sitting in prison for shooting this guy, and everything you're telling me sounds like Self defense. I would assume that, and this is the part of the system I don't like, because you're a felon, because you had a gun and you're a felon, because you, there was drugs involved and, you know, she's on drugs, he's on drugs, you're on drugs, that they no longer look at you as a law abiding citizen protecting themselves.

They look at you as. A guy out there, a felon, with a gun, breaking one law just having it, and then a shootout with, you know, because of drugs, otherwise, everything sounds like self defense. Would you agree that that's the only reason you're in prison? Because you're a felon, and it was drugs involved? Well, I'm going to tell you the truth.

In this specific situation, yes, but I was already on the path to killing somebody at this time. Well, I mean, but the way you just described it to me, a guy running after you with a hatchet, I mean, that's what you're supposed to do is kill him, otherwise you're gonna get a hatchet in your forehead. And especially when they block you in, I'm having some hard time figuring out why, except for I know why, because you're a felon with a gun and There's drugs involved.

That's why you're in prison. I mean, but you're saying if that wouldn't happen, you would have killed somebody else. Why would you, why would you have done that? Well, see, I, I, I've struggled with this concept for a long time of self defense. But if I'm 100 percent honest with myself and others, then to be truthful, I was involved in gang activity.

I was involved with a lot of dangerous people and I was already in that lifestyle. Okay. Yeah, so you're a criminal. I've already, I mentioned that, you know, you're a criminal and you have a fellow with a gun, but I mean, you think somewhere you would have killed somebody without them trying to attack you with a hatchet or machete or whatever it was?

Yeah, that's just what I'm saying. That's crazy. Why would you, that's a pretty hardcore path you were on. Did you not claim self defense with this? What happened after you, you know, your charges? What happened? Okay. I tried to claim self defense and I spent a lot of time in the law library. But, in Missouri, when you're charged with any type of felonious homicide Is no self defense, felony homicide because you were a felon with a gun.

Yeah. So you're telling me as a, if somebody is a felon and they're about to get killed and they hurry up in some kind of way, they, whether they had the gun already, if they just use a gun to, to save their self. I mean, here's the thing, you know, there could be other steps to the story, obviously, 'cause I'm only getting your side.

But to me there could be a case for self-defense here. Ronnie wielding a hatchet clearly threatened Marcus and Maddie's life. He was in a violent, erratic state that Marcus couldn't reason with, and Ronnie had blocked Marcus's car in the driveway, giving Marcus no way to escape or to de escalate the situation.

If I were in Marcus's shoes, I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. Shooting to save your life seems justified. And it's hard to understand why Marcus is sitting in prison right now. Perhaps the court saw that he had a time and place to escape harm without violence. Nevertheless, when this case approached trial, Marcus found himself in a legal bind.

In Missouri, self defense does not apply to cases of felony murder. It's frustrating, but in the way the law is written, Marcus was unable to claim self defense on his murder charge. Despite this, Marcus tries not to dwell on the outcome of his case. Instead, he's willing to admit that he was caught up in a destructive lifestyle, mixing with gangs, and sooner or later, something like this was bound to happen.

Whether or not he intended to kill Ronnie, Marcus says that every bad decision from his past led him up to this event, and he's prepared to take accountability for the person that he was. After the break, we'll hear from Marcus about the days after the crime.

Where did y'all go? We went to Motown's house. Motown? Is that like a drug dealer or something? He was, I guess you could say like one of my big homies at the time. Yeah. Did y'all tell him what happened? I actually did. Like I'm an idiot. What did he say? He uh He said we couldn't stay there. He got us together and took us somewhere else.

Oh, he actually took y'all somewhere else? Well, I thought you had a vehicle. He actually took it and parked it somewhere else. Your vehicle that you were driving? Yeah. Mm hmm. Why did he get it? Because he was, the crime happened only a couple blocks away from his house. So where did you and Maddie go? We went to a kind of a safe house location that I had.

Y'all hid out there for how long? This is gonna sound crazy. Five hours maybe, maybe less. Then where? Then I let her go. And then I ran back and got my car. What was you and Maddie's discussion like as y'all were, you know, the five hours here and there? What was, did y'all talk about what happened? Yeah, I'll never forget the look she gave me.

Yeah? Alright, I remember sitting across from her and she gave me this, I don't know, I call it a soul piercing gaze because she looked at me with this look of love. Frustration, fear, compassion. Hey, I've never seen a look like it. There was a lot of love in it though. Friendship. Yeah. Had you ever been in a relationship with Maddie before?

No, she was just like my little sister. Yeah. Y'all go ahead and jump from place to place. What was the next place after the little five hour rendezvous? Her family or somebody came and picked her up. Did she tell them? I don't know. She wound up telling her brother. I do know that. Did y'all have a discussion about not telling anybody?

Yeah, she actually said that she wanted to take the weight. Because she believed that he would have killed her if I hadn't have stepped in and she knew that I was already a felon and she had already been, had marks on her from him. Was your gun a legally purchased gun? No. She told her brother, you said, or her dad?

She actually wound up telling her brother and her brother's friend. Anybody, one of them called the police? Yeah, they, it says in my discovery that they told her that they had to go down to the police station. So they got her, they got her in their car and they drove straight down to the police station.

Took her with them? Mm hmm. And I guess they went in there and forced her to say what happened? Yeah, I don't know if it'd be forced or Well, I mean, they said this is what you need to do. Um, was it in the news yet? Yeah, I do believe so. How many days had passed, or hours, uh, from the time that he was murdered till she drove up to that police station?

Twelve. Twelve hours? The very next morning, yeah, the very next morning. And it was on the news? Did you see it on the news? No, but I, I had people tell me it was on the news. My mother told me it was on the news. At that point, had you told anybody or did you keep silent about it? Mmm, I had only told Motown.

I didn't tell anybody else. You know, that's crazy that usually, I would say the biggest rule of thumb is whenever you kill somebody, you don't tell anybody. You guys told several people right away. That's, that's pretty crazy. Yeah, I didn't think that I had killed him. I just thought I shot him. And I went right over, and I trusted Motown.

I had a lot of love and trust for him. Did he end up saying anything? Absolutely. Did he call, he called as well and told? No, they, they actually had to arrest him and bring him in for questioning. And he rolled on you? Yeah. Yeah. He did. Yeah. But did that same day that she told they came swooped in and arrested you?

No, they came four days later. Four days later. Wow. Yeah. That was a long time. What did you do in those four days? Did you talk to Maddie? Yep. Yep. No, I didn't talk to anybody. I didn't log in. You didn't try to get a hold of the person that watched you shoot somebody and check on them? I didn't want to. Okay.

So what did you do in that four days? You just laid low and that's it? Laid low, partied, trying to find a way out of town. You wanted to skip town? Yeah. What were your plans to go? I didn't know. Anywhere. I was just going to travel until I found somewhere. I was trying to think in Canada, not Mexico, everywhere.

In the four days after the incident, Marcus went into hiding. By that time, police had responded to reports of gunfire at a home in North Kansas City, and they found Ronnie. dead in the driveway. As the story hit the local news, Marcus realized he was in serious trouble. For a few days, he laid low and made plans to leave town for Canada.

Perhaps going on the run would have been possible if Marcus had kept his crime under wraps. Unfortunately, he made the mistake of confining his buddy. Motown, who later snitched to the police. Maddie had promised to stay silent too, but she confessed to her brother and a friend who took her down to the police station to talk, which was probably the best thing for her, but Marcus was now a wanted man.

From the way Marcus talks about it, the betrayal from Maddie seems to sting the most. He thought of Maddy as a little sister, and he recalls the haunting look she gave him after the crime. It was a look mixed with fear, love, and gratitude. Killing Ronnie hadn't just saved Marcus life, he had freed Maddy from what appeared to be a violent cycle of domestic abuse.

And I guess at some point, what happened? Well, at some point, I ran out of drugs and me and my buddy needed to go find some drugs. So I was like, come on, let's go. And I wound up going to one of my homegirls house that I thought would be safe. And what happened? Whenever I knocked on the door, she like opened the door and pulled me in and told the boy I was with to get in the house and she slammed the door and she was like, dude, the cops just left here like three hours ago.

You gotta go. Oh, they came looking for you? Yeah, I guess they knew that we were going to come. What was your reaction knowing that they're looking for you for somebody that has died because of you? What was your reaction? Hmm. I don't know. I'd say almost just lost. I was lost. I didn't know what to think, what to do.

Yeah, because trust. Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, a huge deal. Like right now you're sitting in prison and at that moment, back when you got this news, it's, Hey, you know, somebody died because of you. There was an incident. You got explaining to do, you got a system that's gonna want to try to prosecute you.

At that moment, you know now that the police are after you. What's your next move? My first instinct was to get out of there. Where'd you go? Well, I went right into the driveway and about three houses down before I was swarmed. Yeah. Yeah. They got you, huh? Mm hmm. Yeah. Straight to questioning? Actually, they took me to a little police station, and then they took me to downtown in the city.

Yeah. Did you tell them everything like you just told me, or what did you do? No, I told them I wanted a lawyer right away. So they wanted to talk to you and you lawyered up? Did you tell your lawyer everything just like you told me? No. I actually did not tell anyone anything for two years until right before I was going to do deposition.

I told a private investigator that my mother and father had hired, or I really hired her, but I told her what happened. So what were you telling previously? Were you just saying nothing? Were you going to plead no contest? What were you doing to your lawyer and everybody else before that? Well, I had a public defender and I didn't really To tell you the truth, I didn't want to talk about it until it was right before trial.

So you actually never even told the story, like, in any shape or fashion, you didn't tell it? No. Until that moment, and then you told it like you told it to me? Yeah. I didn't tell, well, I've told people since I've been convicted, but for those just here, I didn't tell my mom and dad, I didn't tell my roommate.

Let me ask you this, let me ask you this, did you plead guilty or not guilty? Guilty. I wound up pleading guilty. You wound up pleading guilty to what? Voluntary manslaughter. Okay. Did Maddie have the same story as you had? No. Maddie told them all types of crazy stuff. What did they say? What was the craziest thing that, that she tried to say that's different from your story?

That I kidnapped her. Oh my goodness. Yeah. What else? So, this isn't, what I'm about to tell you isn't from the paperwork, but this is from like people coming in to the county jail that had talked to her. They would come in and say, man, you shot her in the head, man, you tried, you tried to rape her. Man, you did this.

I heard so many different stories. I heard that I shot him at Walmart and that I walked up on him and her in the middle of Walmart. I heard all types of crazy stories. So you, you actually plead guilty to the manslaughter. What was the, what did they sentence you to? 15 years. And do you think that what you were found guilty of and the sentencing, how, what is your feelings on that?

Justified? Not at all? Justified. I mean, that guy attacked you with a, he attacked you with a weapon. The way you explained it, I think that, you know, if it was me, I would be not feeling it's justified to put me in prison to shoot somebody when they're approaching me with a hatchet. Really, really upset. If you want to charge me with leaving the scene and all that stuff like you did, then that's justified, but the way you explained it, man, it's, how do you think that that's okay?

I believe that it's okay because it saved me. It saved me from what I was about to do. It saved me from the lifestyle I was down. That's, okay, that, indirectly, we're talking about some different things, but yeah, I see what you're saying now. For me, you know, I'm not out there doing math, I'm about to kill somebody anyways.

Yeah. That's my scenario. Of course. Of course, uh, I would also stayed, you know. I spent my whole time in here really wanting to be mad about not getting off free for him trying to hit me with the hatchet, right? So you're trying to, you feel relief in taking accountability and not fighting it? In your head?

Yeah, that's why I was trying to tell you more about the lifestyle that I was involved in. Because I was involved in a very dangerous lifestyle. And I know for a fact that he pretty much just provided me with an opportunity that I was already looking for at that time. We'll see, here's the thing though.

You're making your story more than what I'm looking at. I'm looking at the scenario of a guy attacking me and I have a gun in my hand. That's it. I'm not looking at nothing else. And neither is a lot of other people out there that are going to hear this. All we always do is we put ourselves In your shoes, whatever it is, that's what we do.

We put ourselves in the victim's shoes too. And then we're like, what do we do? You know, we imagine ourselves being that person. That's just what we do. So I'm not imagining what you were doing 10 years from now, smoking m*th or whatever you shoot it up. And I'm not, all I'm thinking about is what if that was me with a gun and somebody's attacking with a ratchet, no other context involved, and that's why I had that outlook on it.

Marcus's arrest happened in an instant. When his supply of drugs ran low, Marcus went by his friend's house for a refill, but he was met with unwelcome news. She told him that the police were looking for him and he needed to get out of there fast. Cops must have been monitoring the house. Marcus made it only a few houses up the road before he was swarmed and taken into custody.

For the next two years, Marcus chose to remain silent. He refrained from disclosing details about Ronnie's death to anybody. Not even to his public defender. Meanwhile, Maddy was telling a different version of events. A number of crazy stories came back to Marcus ear. Stories that he'd kidnapped or raped her and that he'd shot Ronnie in a Walmart.

It was only shortly before his deposition that Marcus opened up to a private investigator, finally setting the record straight. At court, Marcus pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter and was sentenced to 15 years in prison. Despite everything, Marcus is at peace with his sentence. In his eyes, incarceration has redirected him from a toxic path.

It's forced him to take accountability and saved him from the gang lifestyle he was ensnared in. Many news stories end when the perpetrator is sent to jail, but often, that's only the beginning of the story. Still in his early 20s, Marcus has to face the next few years in the prison system, where he's had to adapt quickly to life in prison.

How many months is that? How many years? Seven. So there's 180 months in 15 years times 40 percent. 72 months. Okay. So this much I know to be true is that I see the parole board in 11 days from today on October 12th. And four months after that is my earliest eligibility date, which would be like February 17th of 2024.

So, how's prison been for you? It hasn't been bad. I mean, do you find I mean, what's your overall, you know Do you feel like it helps the people in there, or do you think it's just a place that, you know, drives people crazy, or what? No, I actually believe that prison is a horrible place for people. Because the guards don't treat you fair, and they're not really focused on rehabilitation or correction.

They're really focused on housing and farming. Have you been in any fights in there? Yeah. Do you win? Nah, you win some, you lose some. Yeah. What's most of the fighting over? Pride? Yeah. Have you joined any gangs? I wasn't necessarily in a gang, but when you, when you're from a certain area, you, you stick with the people from your area and you, you use a gang mentality.

Sure. Sure. Do you think you're going to use when you get back out? No. Do you think you can be completely sober and, and, and not use when you get out? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I'm confident in that. What would you say to somebody out there that's, you know, came from a family like yours, that where they're, you know, they're 16, 17 right now, they may be hearing this and, you know, they came from a normal family and they just want to mess around and, you know, and try something like Oxy, O*ycontin or m*th or whatever.

What would you say to them? I would tell them that they're missing something in life and they're not going to find it in drugs. They can only find them within themselves. I think all those things come into account, but the way you explained it, I think any normal person that has a gun in their hand is going to fire a shot.

Now, if it's not like you said it was and something else, you know, because I don't, I don't interview the prosecutors, I don't interview the, you know, the person convicted, so that's also a way to not look at things, you know, like it should be, but we've already heard the side from, you know, the news and all that.

That's why I get your side, but I appreciate you reaching out and I hope everything goes good at your parole hearing. And I hope you do remain off of m*th, especially when you get out, but take it easy and thanks for reaching out. Alright, I appreciate you. Alright, man. Take it easy. Bye bye. Bye.

On the next episode of Voices of a Killer. You're actually in prison for murder. Just a simple question, are you guilty or not guilty? Just talking about it makes me feel sick to the stomach. And y'all, y'all left and went there? Well, actually, we didn't leave. I wish we would have. That's a major thing that you did as a youngster.

What's that feel like looking back on that? Uh, it took us for one person to be human enough, and I wasn't human enough at that time. Do you think that somebody that has done what you've done, they don't deserve to be put to death? That's a real good question. That's a wrap on this episode of Voices of a Killer.

I want to thank Marcus for sharing his story with us today. His ability to be open and honest is what makes this podcast so special. If you want to listen to these episodes weeks in advance, you can now do so by joining our Patreon at patreon. com slash voices of a killer. There you will get access to raw interviews, unseen news coverage, and unique correspondence with the guests of Voices of a Killer.

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Thank you for tuning in. I'm your host, Toby, and we'll see you next time on Voices of a Killer